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Old 12-04-2010, 01:29 PM   #1
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Default Shot clock question

Here's one I saw in a game on the weekend. It went in our favour but I'm looking for clarification??

Any jump ball is a possession arrow.....we know that
Team in posession retains on posession arrow= no shot clock reset.

Ok...ball is shot with 5 seconds left on the clock and gets wedged between the ring & the backboard. Jump ball, posession arrow, same team retains

Shot clock reset??
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:39 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigal View Post
Here's one I saw in a game on the weekend. It went in our favour but I'm looking for clarification??

Any jump ball is a possession arrow.....we know that
Team in posession retains on posession arrow= no shot clock reset.

Ok...ball is shot with 5 seconds left on the clock and gets wedged between the ring & the backboard. Jump ball, posession arrow, same team retains

Shot clock reset??
I would argue for a reset as the coach, as the ball clearly hit the ring.
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:49 PM   #3
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I would argue for a reset as the coach, as the ball clearly hit the ring.
That was my take on it too. The refs said no reset
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Old 12-04-2010, 02:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigal View Post
That was my take on it too. The refs said no reset
Hmm, very strange.

My argument would be that the ball has to be lodged there for a period of time (be it a second or two) to become a violation, in which case the contact with the ring occurred before the violation.
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Old 12-04-2010, 03:23 PM   #5
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What was their reason for no reset?
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Old 12-04-2010, 03:58 PM   #6
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What was their reason for no reset?
My guess to that would be that they shouldn't benefit from a violation, although depending on how late in the game it was, it wouldn't be a benefit as they no longer get the next jump ball possession.
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:37 PM   #7
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What was their reason for no reset?
They didn't give one. Just talked between themselves and said "No reset"...and away we went
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:40 PM   #8
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It's a jump ball with the same team retaining possession which is a no reset. I doubt the reason for the jump ball is a consideration
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Old 13-04-2010, 01:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daevo View Post
It's a jump ball with the same team retaining possession which is a no reset. I doubt the reason for the jump ball is a consideration
Daevo is correct, with the following rules as justification:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIBA RULES
Art 12.3 - A jump ball situation occurs when:
A live ball lodges on the basket support (except between free throws).
Therefore, the lodging of the ball on the basket support (i.e. between ring and backboard) is a jump ball situation.

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Old 13-04-2010, 09:08 AM   #10
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But why was the shot clock not reset the moment the ball touched the ring?
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Old 13-04-2010, 09:33 AM   #11
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The ball has to touch the ring before it gets lodged. Why would you disadvantage a team with no reset when they clearly shot the ball, and it clearly hit the ring? Going by the intention of the rule, a reset is the right thing to do.
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Old 13-04-2010, 12:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skindog the Hawk View Post
Daevo is correct, with the following rules as justification:



Therefore, the lodging of the ball on the basket support (i.e. between ring and backboard) is a jump ball situation.

SD.
I don't think anyone disagreed on it resulting in a jump ball, it's the reset in question. Is there a ruling for this specific situation, or have we found a loophole for the Tigers to somehow use next season?
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Old 13-04-2010, 01:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clips View Post
I don't think anyone disagreed on it resulting in a jump ball, it's the reset in question. Is there a ruling for this specific situation, or have we found a loophole for the Tigers to somehow use next season?
Sorry, I should have gone further. A jump ball situation where there is no change in control means that there is no reset...ring shot or not.

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Old 13-04-2010, 02:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skindog the Hawk View Post
Sorry, I should have gone further. A jump ball situation where there is no change in control means that there is no reset...ring shot or not.

SD.
Hey SD,

can you point me to the page in the rule book that clarifies this.
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Old 13-04-2010, 04:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clips View Post
I don't think anyone disagreed on it resulting in a jump ball, it's the reset in question. Is there a ruling for this specific situation, or have we found a loophole for the Tigers to somehow use next season?
Wow, really, i'm suprised the rules allow the clock not to be reset. the ball hit the ring.
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Old 13-04-2010, 04:40 PM   #16
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Article 12.3 describes the jump ball situations
12.4. alternating possession page 19
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Old 13-04-2010, 05:08 PM   #17
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Yes but the reset should have occured before the jump ball situation. i.e The ball HIT the ring (reset) before it LODGED IN THE BASKET SUPPORT (jump ball). So it is not reset on the jump but SHOULD HAVE been reset before the jump ball occured. In my opinion the refs got it wrong. As usual I dont expect any admission of error to be forthcomming.
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Old 13-04-2010, 06:36 PM   #18
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I don't think the interpretation would be that the ball hit anything before being lodged. It certainly didn't come back into play - it simply stuck there = jump ball. Having said that, if I was on the shot clock, I'd have had to run it down to 5 seconds because I would have hit & held the reset button when I saw the ball make contact with the ring.

Last edited by Daevo; 13-04-2010 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 13-04-2010, 06:47 PM   #19
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I understand what you are saying, but a general rule AFAIK is that whatever happens first is the call. eg if you travel just before you bowl someone over refs usually call the travel and ignore the o/foul. The laws of physics or those of common sense (unfamiliar territory for many refs) prove that the ball must hit the ring before getting stuck. The reset is to happen when a shot attempt HITS the ring.
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Old 13-04-2010, 09:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fan since the old snakepit View Post
The laws of physics or those of common sense (unfamiliar territory for many refs) prove that the ball must hit the ring before getting stuck. The reset is to happen when a shot attempt HITS the ring.
Even if you forget this solid logic and rely solely on the meaning behind the rule, it should be a reset. How can you argue that the player didn't attempt a shot when it hits the ring with enough force to get wedged? Common sense would indicate that if there is a grey area in the rules, it should be interpreted based on the intent of the rule. In this case, a reset.
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Old 13-04-2010, 09:42 PM   #21
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I had this the "lodged ball' reset issue in my game on the weekend except the ball hit the ring bounced up and then got stuck. Since the arrow was pointing in our direction we didn't get a reset either.
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Old 13-04-2010, 09:47 PM   #22
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Whilst the rules may seem to contradict themselves, the fact of the matter is that articles 12.3 & 12.4 cover this situation exactly. It is a jump ball situation and therefore there is no reset of shot clock if the offensive team remains in control.

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Old 13-04-2010, 10:00 PM   #23
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Going a bit further, Article 50.2 & 50.4 also deal with this situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIBA Art 50.2
Stopped and reset to twenty-four (24) seconds, with no display visible, as soon as:
An official blows his whistle for a foul or violation.
The ball legally enters the basket.
The ball touches the ring of the opponents' basket unless the ball lodges on the basket support.
The game is stopped because of an action connected with the team not in
control of the ball.
The game is stopped because of an action not connected with either team,
unless the opponents would be placed at a disadvantage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIBA Art 50.4
Stopped, but not reset to twenty-four (24) seconds, when the same team that previously had control of the ball is awarded a throw-in as a result of:
A ball having gone out-of-bounds.
A player of the same team having been injured.
A jump ball situation.
A double foul.
A cancellation of equal penalties against the teams.
In CallisoH8R's situation, you'd find that if the ball hit the rim, bounced up and then lodged, it would be a reset (as it was a rim shot), then a jump ball situation.

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Old 13-04-2010, 10:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skindog the Hawk View Post
Whilst the rules may seem to contradict themselves, the fact of the matter is that articles 12.3 & 12.4 cover this situation exactly. It is a jump ball situation and therefore there is no reset of shot clock if the offensive team remains in control.
So we just ignore rule 29.1.1?
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Old 13-04-2010, 10:46 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallitron View Post
So we just ignore rule 29.1.1?
Rule 50.2 & 50.4 are quite explicit in stating that the situation of the ball lodging is not a cause for a reset of shot clock. Not ignoring 29.1.1., but that is all about a shot touching the ring, not getting lodged in the support.

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